Episode 178: Pornography, Sexual Health, Sexuality, & More: Q&A

You are listening to the Overcome Pornography for Good podcast episode 178, Q&A from Healthy Sexuality Milestone.

Welcome to the Overcome Pornography For Good podcast where we take a research-based, trauma informed and results focused approach to quitting porn. This approach has been revolutionary and changed thousands and thousands of lives. I’m your host, Sara Brewer. 

Hey everyone, welcome to today’s episode. Today we’re doing a Q&A, which is so fun. And I think maybe I’ll do some more of these in the future, it’s fun and it gives me content for me. But there’s some things to clarify, there’s some questions to answer, and these are all in regards to the past couple of episodes we’ve done. 

We’ve done stuff on masturbation, on porn panic, on healthy sexuality, fantasy versus desire, some really good stuff here. And I want to give an opportunity to answer some questions and to ask some questions and to chat through some things and clarify some things, and that’s what this episode is about. So we’ve had a number of submissions, and I’ll share some of these questions. 

And before we hop in, just, you know, I got a number of questions, but I’m going to focus this episode on the questions surrounding what we talked about in the last couple of episodes. If you send in a question and it’s not specifically about these episodes or questions around these episodes, that’s fine. I’ll just hold onto them and we’ll probably do another episode where I will address them a little bit more in depth. 

So if you don’t hear your question answered, it’s probably because I’m going to address it in another episode and maybe read it in that other episode. Anyways, we’re just going to focus this one on questions from these healthy sexuality milestones and the porn panic stuff. All right, let’s go. 

Okay, first question. So this is in regards to masturbation and this is from one of our female listeners. They said, “I’ve struggled with this and the shame, like you spoke of. You’re the first person I’ve heard speak openly and truthfully about masturbation. My question is now that I’ve overcome this and have a healthy relationship with it, my genitals are not the same. How do I bring that up with my future spouse? And do I do anything because my genitals don’t look normal?” 

Okay, so first thing, there is no normal. There is no normal when it comes to how genitalia looks. And so I really want you to question that. Like my genitals aren’t normal, that’s probably not true. It’s probably not true. And especially if this is the first place that you’ve heard me talk about masturbation in this way, there might be a little bit of a lack of sex education here. 

And so there’s this really great study that was done and you can go look at this in Monash University, it’s a university in Australia. But they talk about sex education, trying to teach teenagers that not all genitalia looks the same because similar concerns get brought up. But what happens, right, is during puberty or other times in your life, genitals will change and they’ll change how they look. And what you see online is not real. Things are airbrushed and very changed to look very perfect. 

And so genital concerns are normal. They start early and they change. Your body changes. It’s going to change through puberty. It’s going to change, like when you’re pregnant it changes. Especially women, your bodies are changing every single month. And there are a lot of resources out there for you that you can find resources on bodies and women’s bodies and how things don’t look the same. 

So don’t be afraid to look into some of that for yourself and really question that they don’t look normal because there are just so many different things. I do not know this person. I do not know all the details, but that’s like, number one is we’ve been taught that there’s one normal way that our bodies are supposed to look, and that’s just not true. That’s just not true. 

If you have concerns about it, go to a gynecologist and they can help you with that. But that’s my number one thing here, is everyone’s bodies are different and bodies change and they don’t look like what we see online. 

Okay, let’s go to this one. “Hey Sara, I’ve been listening to the podcast, learned a lot. It’s given me a lot of strength. However, I do have a problem with believing in sexuality as a force for good. I hear the words, I understand the tiger analogy and it all makes perfect sense and makes me feel good for a time. But practically speaking, I don’t see how I will ever believe and accomplish sexuality as a force for good when it involves more than just me. 

I hate my sexuality. The way I see it is that it hardly even belongs to me in the first place. It is completely at the mercy and control of my wife. Over our 14 years of marriage, I feel that the quality of our sex life has gone downhill. Now I’m at the point where I actively avoid any kind of sexual interaction with her, even on special occasions like our anniversary. By the end of each interaction, it’s a net negative for me and I’m in a worse position emotionally than I was before the interaction. 

For something that has been declining for so long. I honestly don’t believe it will ever get better, let alone be a positive force. I’ve even prayed on many occasions over the years that I would not want sex or think about it ever again, which I know is about as productive as asking to never be hungry again. But what am I supposed to do? I seriously don’t want anything to do with it anymore. It has brought me nothing but pain and anxiety and a couple of kids along the way. 

How could I possibly believe and use my sexuality for good when it relies so much on my partner and barely is even mine to control in the first place?” 

Okay, first of all, thank you so much for submitting this question. It’s such a great one. It’s such a great one. And here’s the thing, when our sexuality doesn’t become our own, it can get intense and out of control and scary and depressing really quickly, right? So this sentence, “the way I see it is that it hardly even belongs to me in the first place.” To heal this, it’s time to take that back and to realize and recognize your sexuality is yours and yours alone and no one can tell you what to do with it unless you’re hurting other people. 

No one can control it. It is yours and yours alone. And you can do that within your moral frame, okay? You can do that within your moral frame. And your sexuality is not your spouse’s. I mean, this is a huge thing we probably should talk about for hours. And I can get one of my really great sex coaches on to talk through this in depth with me. 

But when our sexuality, like we think it’s someone else’s, oh, it creates really, I don’t know if codependent is the right word, really codependent behavior. And it creates a lot of resentment. It creates a lot of stress. 

And so instead we want to try to change the mindset back to your sexuality is yours, mine is mine. And you don’t own mine and I don’t own yours, but I want to share mine with you, right? If that’s what you’re choosing, if that’s what you want, if it’s the partner that you want. Like I’m hoping that we can share this together instead of you own mine. Okay. 

It’s a bit of a road and a bit of a journey to be able to get to that point, but let’s start there. How can I take this back and have this be mine and, of course, live within my moral frame and my moral compass? It’s going to start with how you see it, how you think about it. You’re going to want to do a lot of inner child work or inner healing work. 

If you’re in the program, that shame milestone is going to be really helpful for this. And then our coaching calls are going to be really helpful with this, especially like our monthly coaching calls with a sex coach are going to be really helpful for this. So if you’re not in the program, come get in and let us help you or start to try to do some of this work on your own or with someone else that you trust. 

Find some resources that you can dive into that can teach you how to use your sexuality for good. I really like Jennifer Finlayson-Fife for this stuff. So just listen to as much of her material as possible. She’s really great for this. But that sentence is key, “The way I see it is that it hardly even belongs to me in the first place.” That’s, in my opinion, the root of all of this distress is that it’s not yours and it doesn’t belong to you. And that’s not true. That’s not true. 

Your sexuality is yours and yours alone, and your spouse does not own it. And you can accept it and love it and nurture it in ways that fit your moral compass. And it might take just kind of looking at things a little bit differently and using that sexuality, that sexual energy for good, instead of using it to repress and hate and repress and hate. So there’s some healing that needs to be done here. And that’s where I would start if I were you. 

Okay, let’s go to the next one. “I understand that you’re dispelling myths and it’s around shame related to this topic. And I think it’s super important. I find it hard to believe that porn and masturbation do not cause erectile dysfunction. Also, it seems it would be important to clarify what you mean by porn and masturbation use. 

If I indulge once a day, I wouldn’t experience any ED. But if I masturbate once a day or multiple times a day, I definitely experience ED and it affects my sexual relationship with my wife. Also, just because science hasn’t proven negative side effects, it doesn’t mean they don’t exist. The science has never settled.” 

Yeah, so exactly that last sentence is really good. The science has never settled, and that’s kind of what I was trying to explain when I’m sharing all of our studies that we have found out, right? Maybe we find something different in a year or two, but here’s what all of the data shows us for now. Here’s what we know for now. 

This is the main data, the main patterns that we’re seeing now, is that porn and masturbation do not cause erectile dysfunction. And there are many other things underneath the surface that could be causing that. I would just be curious to hear what other things are going on with the masturbation or the porn use that could be causing the ED. 

I would also be interested in defining ED, right? So is this erectile dysfunction or is this just that we’ve already used up our sexual energy and we don’t have any more sexual energy for the day, right? There’s a difference there. Erectile dysfunction, not able to get an erection or I’m kind of worn out because I already masturbated today. I’m not really in the mood because I already used my sexual energy for the day, right? So there’s a difference there. 

And then again, yeah, to reiterate, the studies and the findings that we see is that there’s little to no evidence that porn and masturbation cause any erectile dysfunction. Instead, what they’ve found is that if there are two groups of people and they’re viewing about the same amount of porn, and one is experiencing ED and the other one isn’t, the group that perceives that they have a problem with porn experience erectile dysfunction, whereas those who view the same amount of porn but do not believe it’s a problem, don’t perceive it as a problem, don’t experience erectile dysfunction to the same degrees. 

And yeah, I would just be curious here. Here’s kind of what we’re seeing. Is there anything else to look at underneath the surface? And just be curious, right? We use the research to show us patterns and to help us find the best treatment methods. And then you use your own personal experience to kind of decide what’s going to be best for you. 

But again, that’s something I would question too. Is this ED or is this just, I’m not really feeling it anymore because I already used my sexual energy for the day? 

Okay, let’s talk about this one. This is a really great one. Okay, so this question is long, I’m going to summarize some of these things here. This listener’s concern is around the sexualization of young, barely legal girls. And so in that porn panic we talked about adult porn doesn’t lead to SEM, sexual exploitation material, or child sexual abuse material. We don’t call it child porn, we call it CSAM. It’s really important that we make a differentiation there. It’s child sexual abuse material, child sexual exploitation material, sexual exploitation material. 

And so this person has a really great question, really great point here, right? So this is what they say. “I think the porn industry, amongst others, needs much more complex screening processes for these age of consent issues, right? They’re like, if it’s a day before they turn 18 or the day after they turn 18, what’s the difference here? I think it’s wrong. And maybe subconscious messages from the industry that say, and almost encourage this sexualization of young girls, as young as they possibly can.” 

Yeah. So I agree with you. I agree with you. I think that the sexualization of young girls in the media, in Hollywood, in porn industries, I don’t like it. I don’t like it. I don’t think it’s using our sexuality for good. You’re like at 18 years old, can you really consent? If you can’t consent at 17 years old, can you really at 18 years old? And this person says there needs to be a law, you know, there needs to be some cutoff so that there’s like a law somewhere, but how do we know? 

Yeah, I’m with you. It’s hard. It’s difficult. I want things to be better for women. I want things to be better for women and our society really does value that young woman’s body. And it’s not new, young women’s bodies have always been ideal, attractive, you know, at least in our current society. I really love the body positive movements and everything going on, trying to change some of this internally. 

And just to answer this question, one of the questions is I would think that might have some indirect effect of SEM consumption or of sexual exploitation material consumption. And yeah, I don’t know, maybe. Maybe. There might be some data there that says it, maybe. But here’s kind of what I was looking at when I was talking about this, you know, child sexual abuse material. We’re talking like young, young, young, young, young. Like not mature bodies. We’re talking like, you know, kiddie porn. I even hate saying the word, right? 

So, you know, there’s not any direct, if you’re going to view adult porn, it doesn’t lead to that. And yeah, I think there’s probably some things to look at here. So one thing here to mention too, we can recognize and understand how valuable a porn neutral stance is in treatment and not be neutral about the porn industry. Okay? There’s a difference there. Neutral about if you view porn and masturbate, we’re neutral about that and it gives us so much better results. 

It gives us a lot more power over our sexual actions. We’re not binging anymore. We’re making really empowered decisions. We’re able to use our sexuality for good and choose what types of things we want to watch, right? If we’re like, ooh, even if there’s that part of me that wants to view that, I can still use my sexuality for good and say that’s not something I want to support. 

And we can have that in treatment and understand that, that’s a neutral thing, and not be neutral about how the porn industry does some things and push for the porn industry to have better screening processes and work through some of these age consent issues because there’s some problems there. Yeah, it’s sticky. It’s all so sticky. It’s all so sticky and mixed and messy and new. And we’re doing our best to figure out how to make the world a better place. 

Okay, another question here is, “How can you tell if something is consensual? I personally wouldn’t know how to check or know.” 

Okay, anyways, they go on with some of these things and it kind of comes down to what I was saying about how we can see the real huge benefits in seeing porn and being porn neutral, right? Porn masturbation neutral in treatment and in learning to get control over your actions. And that’s what gives you the power to choose your sexuality for good, is getting rid of the things that have really been blown up in the big fear and shame. 

And that doesn’t mean that we’re totally neutral and say that the porn industry does not have some things to do better, right? Or that they shouldn’t be held accountable or they shouldn’t be more responsible for some of the darker things that do go on. And I agree with that. 

Okay, another question. They say, “How do you push back against the addiction model in the LDS faith?” So this is for LDS listeners, but this can apply to anyone who’s like, oh, but my church or, but my community, you know, but they really use these things that I’m finding aren’t very helpful. 

How do you push back against the addiction model in the LDS faith, particularly when they draw on support from prominent LDS therapists? So my big thing is don’t. Don’t push back. Don’t push back. Sometimes we think we have to get in this tug of war where I’m pulling on my side and you’re pulling on your side and we’re tug of warring tug of warring. And I’m going to try to pull harder to make my point. 

You don’t need to. You don’t need to. You can just drop the rope and live how you want to live and do what’s best for you. And you don’t need to convince anyone else that this is the right way. You just need to know in you, in your gut. You need to ask yourself if this is the right way for you and then be assured enough and confident enough to live that. 

You don’t need to pull on this rope. You can just drop it. And if it comes up in conversation, again, you don’t need to pull on the rope and try to convince people. I will say support from prominent LDS therapists for maybe some of the sex addiction model stuff, there are just as many prominent therapists within your faith that don’t support the addiction model when it comes to sex addiction. 

There’s a really interesting book, I haven’t read it, but I’ve heard great things about it. And well, one of my coaches, they’ve been reading it and it’s funny because they had someone in their life who was reading it and showing it to them and being like, “Look, this is what they say about porn. It’s like, don’t ask about the porn, ask about the emotion underneath. Isn’t that crazy?” And they were just laughing because they’re like, what? This is what I’ve been doing for the last however many years in Overcome Pornography For Good. You didn’t know? You didn’t know this is what I do? 

The book is called Confessions of an LDS Sex Researcher by Cameron Staley. It’s just supposed to be phenomenal. I would really, really, really recommend that if that’s what you’re working through. And if you’re in any conservative religion, I bet it’ll be really helpful for you too. But Confessions of an LDS Sex Researcher. And okay, I love, I just love what he says. He says, you know, this is talking about his book. 

He says, “I’ve never been afraid to write anything before. Well, until this book. I’ve published a dozen research studies in peer-reviewed medical and psychological journals. I’ve spoken from the pulpit to my congregation countless times on a myriad of religious topics. Those were easy. I knew who my audience was. I can talk openly about sexuality in the academic realm and about faith with my fellow parishioners. The problem with writing this book is simple, I can’t tailor the message to my audience.” 

I just love this so much because I just, ah, I connect so much to this. I understand this feeling. “I can’t tailor the message to my audience. I can’t censor my thoughts as I talk about discipleship or hold anything back as I share my experiences as a graduate student in a human sexuality research laboratory. Somehow I found a way to simultaneously offend the sex addiction treatment community, as well as members of my own faith who believe in sex addiction. 

As a clinician, I work with many individuals who feel like they can’t fully express themselves within their own religious communities. As a clinician, as someone who is a sex researcher, it’s really hard to talk about these things with your community because you’re going to offend them, or they’re going to think you’re crazy, or they’re going to take things way out of context. 

Anyways, I don’t struggle with this as much as I used to.” Man, I just, I love that. It’s just, it’s so true. It’s so true. I need to read this book. There’s a high level of – Oh my gosh, if this is not me the last six months as I’ve been releasing these new things around being porn neutral. 

“There is a high level of fear about being ostracized if others truly know the doubts they hold or the beliefs they have. I share this fear. Confessions explore the impact of culture, beliefs, church policy on sexuality, the realities of being a mental health provider and a disciple, and my hope in fostering connection, healing wounds, and giving voice to marginalized individuals.” Oh, yeah, I feel like I’m going to love this. If anyone knows Cameron Staley, can you connect me? 

Anyways, I guess just what I would say about this in regards to your faith, yeah, I mean, you don’t need to push back. You just need to be firm in what you think about yourself, recognizing this is a big time of cultural shift within religion and sexuality. At least I see it. I see it a lot everywhere where a lot of stuff is pushing back on how churches have taught about sexuality, pushing back because it’s been harmful and it’s been behind. 

And with that pushback, if you are someone who does that pushback, it can be scary. It can be hard. It can feel ostracizing. I know sex therapists who have been excommunicated for saying some of the things that I say. It’s messy. It’s sticky. It’s not black and white. You know, a lot of times I’m like, what am I doing? What am I doing? I couldn’t have chosen a more complex thing to work through and talk about and try to help. 

So it’s just funny. It’s just funny. My big thing is don’t push back. Just drop the rope. It’s really going to help as you develop your own spiritual personal authority too. I’ve done podcast episodes on that too. It’s going to help to do that. Yeah.

Okay, the second question from this listener is, “What can you do when faced with the porn panic and your spouse has, at least in the past, bought into it, but hasn’t let go of porn panic in the present?” 

All right, so what I’m hearing is what if my spouse still believes all these things and maybe I want to drop some of these things that my spouse still believes in. Again, let’s drop the rope. Your spouse can believe what they want to. And let’s listen to them. If there’s some trauma, if there’s some betrayal trauma, if they have concerns, let’s listen to them and let’s be curious. 

You don’t need to convince them of anything. You just need to be curious and listen and empathetic and full of understanding. And again, this isn’t a black and white thing of here’s how to handle this exact situation. You know, each couple is going to work through things differently. My biggest recommendation to you is drop the rope. Don’t try to convince and just be curious, compassionate, and empathetic. 

And we can help you with this in the program. We do a lot of this work with people in the program too. So come join a coaching call and let us help you with that if you’re there in the program. 

Okay, and number three, “What can you do when your state government is buying into the porn panic and you feel powerless?” So I’m not sure what you mean by this. Like in my state, you know, this is a good idea in theory, you have to click a button that says you’re over 18. Like Pornhub, if you go to Pornhub.com, it says, are you over 18? Yes or no? Yeah, that’s a good thing. We probably need that. 

And it feels kind of like a PR move because there’s a lot more that we can do to help kids, not just pretend banning Pornhub. Like there’s a lot more that needs to happen, like sex education. And it doesn’t seem like the government is willing, or our current politicians are willing to even look at that. And so that’s kind of annoying. 

But again, you’re giving your power away here. You’re giving your power away to the people in your faith that are telling you addiction model stuff. You’re giving your power away to your spouse. You’re giving your power away to the government. Now I want you to take that power back, and you do that by dropping the rope. 

We don’t need to fight anyone on this. You just need to know what to do for yourself and how to take the next step forward for you. And whenever someone tries to bring that rope back and try to fight with you again, you just keep it dropped. You just drop it. Easier said than done. You can learn how to do this. We can help you with this, of course, in coaching, or if there’s someone else that you’re working with that you really trust, some kind of therapist or group, that’s going to help a lot. 

But you don’t need to give your power to them. You don’t need to do that anymore. Listen, change comes bottom up, not top down. What that means, change comes from individuals, lots of individuals changing how they’re doing it. And then it eventually makes its way into top organizations. Change doesn’t typically come from an organization pushing things down, okay? 

And so, yeah, of course, you know, not everyone gets this. Of course I might be one of the first people to start making this change and thinking about this differently. And it’s blessing my life so much. It’s changing my life so much. I finally feel empowered. I finally feel like I have control. That’s all I need to worry about. And if someone wants to hear about it, I’ll tell it to them. If someone wants to fight me on it, I’m just going to drop the rope. Just going to drop the rope. I don’t need to convince anyone. 

And then let’s see this listener also says, oh, they mentioned some therapists that are considered respected authorities. The truth of porn addiction and sex addiction models. Yeah, so you can also find others who are not. And just because one voice might be really amplified, doesn’t mean that it is the best voice or doesn’t mean that it’s going to work for you. 

So I would recommend that book I talked about by Cameron Staley. I would also recommend Jennifer Finlayson-Fife. I don’t know what she thinks about the addiction model, but I like a lot of her stuff. It’s been a couple of years since I’ve listened to her. She’s a lot more nuanced and healthy sexuality focused and is a good resource. I mention her a lot because she’s a good one for people who are like in their faith, that want someone who is active in their faith. She’s a good one. 

But there’s a lot of really good ones too. I also like my researcher who I contracted to do a lot of this for me. Her name’s Meg Jankovich and she has an Instagram profile you can go find, it’s called shame-free chastity. I also like Amanda Louder. 

I really love Natasha Helfer, a lot of her market seems to be people who are leaving high demand religion. So that might be really helpful for you. If that feels uncomfortable to you, maybe not, but I really like her stuff. She’s got great stuff, specifically healing from sexual shame and religious trauma and all that stuff. So she’s a good one if that feels comfortable to you. 

If you want someone who’s really active in the LDS faith, I do really like Jennifer Finlayson-Fife for that. Also it sounds like this Cameron Staley guy is active in his church. So I know that’s a little LDS focused and I sometimes get reviews, people are like, I’m not Mormon. I’m not Mormon, but I still like this. And just reminding y’all, yeah, so we do keep this and our program is, it’s not based on a real specific faith. 

Some of my earlier podcasts might’ve talked more about specific LDS doctrine because that’s the community that I’m around, but this applies everywhere to anyone. And we don’t teach things from a certain religion. We’re not religious based and we do have many, many religious clients, so we can work with you wherever you’re at with that. 

Okay, you guys, that was a big one. Whoa. There were a lot of really great questions. Thanks for bringing those. There were a couple I didn’t get to that maybe we’ll get to in other episodes. In the meantime, thanks for being here and we’ll talk to you next week. Bye-bye.

I want to invite you to come and listen to my free class, How To Overcome Pornography For Good Without Using Willpower. We talk about how to stop giving in to urges without pure willpower or relying on phone filters so that you can actually stop wanting pornography. 

We talk about how to stop giving up after a few weeks or months. And spoiler alert, the answer isn’t have more willpower. And then lastly, we talk about how to make a life without porn easily sustainable and permanent. 

If you’re trying to quit porn, this class is a game changer. So you can go and sign up at Sarabrewer.com/masterclass, and it is totally free.